I would hate to see any of our custodial staff let go. They're all so friendly... and such a part of Zoe's day. I don't remember the custodians from my childhood schools at all... but Zoe seems to know them all by name. They're not just in the background... they're involved staff. Zoe's bus driver is also one of the custodial staff. Willy may be the nicest man I've ever met... I know he looks out for the kids and cares so much about them all. It would be a shame to see him go.

Willy has always looked out for my kids..................

This one's a non-starter, I think. After hearing the Board of Ed last night, I'd be surprised if their solution to the custodial issue involves the termination of current employees. And given that they make a fraction of what their DPW counterparts do, that's as it should be. Further, whatever entity the BoE might outsource this work to, by the BoE's own admission last night it would be a company that pays its workers less...which means less than a living wage (so it, the entity, can turn a profit). Unlike our current Council, this Board of Ed is way too classy to do something that is morally dubious. (Ten years ago that wouldn't have been the case.)

Won't surprise me one bit if the BoE drops them all, "class" or not.

They'll wring their hands and complain about Christie and not getting enough money, but, in the end, the great green dollar will win out.

I hope I'm wrong.

Is this related to the "Strangers? Not in our schools!" signs that have suddenly sprouted throughout town?

I think the BoE had to explore it before realizing the wrongness of it. If full outsourcing reaches the point of a board vote, it'll go down by at least 6-3 or 7-2. These current board members are better -- and smarter -- people than to save pennies at the cost of their own humanity and the kids' comfort.

You're correct, Karin...I had the Supreme Court on my mind this week! So, make that a likely 6-2 vote against outsourcing, with unanimity not a reach.

What you're missing in the equation is that, one way or another, staff needs to be added. None of this would be a problem if Christie hadn't cut our state aid by $3M over the last 3 years. But you're now seeing the consequences. The schools aren't as clean as they should be because there aren't enough custodians, which presents the option of hiring a company that pays its workers slave wages, ignoring any sense of loyalty to those who have served faithfully for years if not decades, and essentially, though only superficially, meeting the present needs at less cost. The number of things that are repugnant about this option are so compelling that were it to be adopted I personally, as a journalist, would immediately begin researching an article to expose the inner workings of that outsourced company...i.e., what they pay their workers and how much profit they generate. People can't sit idly by while a sweatshop mentality takes over in the U.S.

Formal request of Patch: Show some integrity and block gratuitously nasty people like Anonymous from posting. The right-wing distortion of fact is something we've sadly grown to expect -- that people try to justify any way they can that poverty-level incomes don't morally insulate workers from further cuts or from being fired because sleazy execs can find others to work for even less -- but personal attacks on people who use real names from cowards who don't simply should not be permitted.

I'm done responding to anyone without a real name, tonight or in the future. And "creative solutions" come from people collaborating in a healthy way (which hopefully will happen), not simply giving ultimatums to those who are vulnerable.

No one wants to lose the custodians, but if it comes down to losing teaching staff or custodians....

"Board of Education President Lisa Ellis said she hates that the district is at the point of considering the option, but nothing is decided.
"I promise this is not a done deal," she said."

And yet it's my understanding that this option was actually suggested by both Dr. Rossi and Mrs. Ellis.

Guess what you present to the public doesn't necessarily have to be truthful. I'd "hate" it too if it turns out to be unpopular, no matter who's idea it was initially.

I'd be upset if it wasn't evaluated. But if the decision is we are better of keeping the same system that's an acceptable and well evaluated decision.

We were never really "flush". I did not blame Christie, I blamed an ever growing list of legislators, Governors, etc. in all political parties who have failed to come to a reasonable solution on the school funding issue that is equitable to every student in this state. Madison sends tens of millions of dollars to Trenton in the form of state income tax and gets an ever shrinking return both in school and municipal aid and still sees property taxes rising annually. We are receiving less school aid today than we did in the 1999-2000 school year. Educate yourself on the bigger issues, www.NJSpotlight.com is a great resource on all state financial issues, come to meetings or call me and I will even happily sit down with you and discuss it.

Let's be accurate, Mikey. You've inverted my position, which is, and always has been, that teachers are AS deserving as DPW/Police/Fire. I'm not even arguing that they should make more than they do and the others less...I'm just saying don't keep looking to THEM for sacrifice when the others make more.

Yet again your comments about the school budget come from unfamiliarity with the reality of it. I'm sure you won't take Mrs. Ellis up on her offer to discuss it in detail with you, or anyone. Far easier to pontificate without the facts, which is pretty much The Madison Way.

Okay, suggest ways to cut if you think there are any left. You need specifics, not generalities. Having closely followed the process for years, right now the budget is bare bones, whereas there remains obvious excess in the municipal one.

Let's look at the facts -
The district said that there is a savings of $100,000 by outsourcing. The custodial staff agreed to make up the $100,000 through concessions of pay and benefits. Hmmmm. So why are we still looking into this. This custodial staff has an average of 18 years of service to the students of Madison. They make a fraction of what our administrators make. Why is it NOT the Madison Way to fire town Gov't employees, but it is OK to fire these loyal workers? No disrespect to Mr. Codey or Mr. Burnett who are both wonderful to work with and even better people, however the point is that the argument is hypocritical. These custodians have "proven themselves to be a “dream team”, that they are willing to concede $100,000. These men and women put in far beyond 40 hours a week, many working outside jobs to pay their bills." How many times have you had a child leave and instrument, coat, or other item at school? More importantly, how many times have our custodians taken the time to help us as parents treating us like gold to help us in our search for our children's lovely items?
Is it the Madison way to offer these fine men and women (minus possibly 6) the opportunity to be fired and then rehired by the outsourcing company of choice for $10 an hour with no benefits at all?
What is the Madison Way then?

Son, where is the documentation of $100k in savings? No disrespect, but I've been to every BOE meeting now for over 2 years and I've heard the talk about outsourcing, but I have never heard any mention of $100k in savings, nor seen any concessions enumerated for that matter either. And what about the need for additional labor? Is that where the $100k "savings" will go? Will that be enough for the 10 additional employees, ($10K each a year, seems way below the poverty level).

Don't misunderstand, I agree that my children as well as myself have been assisted by custodial staff more times than I care to count and I value the job they do and their dedication. I just question all numbers, and try to make sense of it all.

As an aside, your name choice, unless you are claiming to be the rebellious Son, the Father you claim on this thread would probably disown you.

Finally, Lisa 'who is benefitting?' My answer includes the Abbott districts and all the politicians that serve them. But they benefit in dollars, not in the graduates they produce. When we all agree that throwing money at a problem, isn't the way to solve all types of problems, well then perhaps we can come up w "creative solutions".

I would suggest the following, ask the BOE and Administration what the custodial staff has been willing to give up to keep their jobs. The $100,000 is what the staff was told they needed to shed in order to keep their jobs. Seek out the truth and you will find the answers. I understand more staffing in the building might seem great, how couldn't that sound great. However, what will these three specialists do when they are not needed. A full time electricician will be doing electrical work every single day? I just don't understand how we can be so nit picky with such a hard working group of people. Search for the truth and you will find it. Have we interviewed districts who have outsourced to see the pros and cons? If the might $ isn't the bottom line, it is on all of us to investigate to see how these programs have worked in other districts and find out how our current staff has been treated. Although none of the custodial staff will talk on the record due to fear of firing, their treatement has been less than cordial. Just ask about it tomorrow night.

So to sum up:

We (the people) don't understand the budget process, we don't know what's really going on (the truth),no problems (or responsibility it seems) can be attributed to our local government (it all trickles down from the State) and it's only "The Madison Way" when it's not your buddies on the wrong end of the stick....do I have this about right?

And you claim that we'd somehow "offer" to pay more than a 2% tax hike into your charge if allowed?

Again, I think you miss the point that is frustrating to most of us. I (for one) would have more respect for you and this local government if you made the hard decisions and STOOD BY THEM without the wringing of hands and pointing of fingers to others who "tied your hands." You've been elected to lead. Lead.

I love the forums. Keep in mind, we are only hearing the BOE side and the opinions of many Madison residents. I would suggest that when dropping your child off or are in the schools, talk to the custodial staff about the situation. Ask them for their side of the story. I have heard what the BOE has stated in meetings, on the website, and the numbers for the proposed 2012-2013 budget. There are always two sides to a story with facts. I encourage all to ask questions and treat the custodians "The Madison Way."

As a view from the cheap seats, a sour taste is lingering from those involved with the RC episode.

As has been noted, most residents were offended by the manner which RC was released; but though not as vocal, many of the same were just as much so by the manner of the reinstatement which was A) Treated as if most of the community unconditionally demanded it & B) Was done without any explanation of what changed financially or why a town the size of Madison can afford over $300K for the Administrator position

As for our BOE Pres, we are fortunate to have her in the role. She’s been tenacious in battling with the state on our behalf to recoup our tax $. And she appears very passionate about doing whats right for our kids education. But she took the stand she took when it came to reinstating RC at all costs, which as a resident she had every right to do. But it makes for a difficult transition back into a role where she has the fiscal responsibility to the public, and is faced with decisions related to staff reductions after demanding the town council retract their proposal to do the same.

Regarding this particular issue, we need to explore cost saving options. And I don't want to kick anyone out the door tomorrow, but in order to ensure our kids are getting the maximum benefit of education $, we need to implement the best long term solution. This may or may not include phasing in the outsourcing of positions, but that’s what needs to be determined.

MD and Others, Perhaps 'it's not your job" to offer anything constructive, and you are certainly entitled to give your perspective as a taxpayer. But I believe when you are part of a community, where you pay taxes and benefit from the services it provides, you should also participate and get involved. Sometimes there are innovative ways to tackle problems, and at least becoming aware of the difficulties we face, people can gain some understanding of decisions made.

Don't get me wrong, bc I may not always agree w the decisions made by BOE or Council, but I try to offer my criticisms and/or suggestions in a respectful manner. Nobody serving in our local government is being paid for their 'job', but they all have dedicated themselves to serving us. As part of that commitment, they should be willing to listen to our input, and answer our questions.

It seems like there is an awful lot of frustrated voices on both sides of this discussion. Whether we are concerned about how much we spend, who we spend it in, or how much we still need, it comes down to dollars. So hopefully we can come closer to discovering that amount tonight. Hope to see you there.